Curse

Tiyuri · Feb 11, 2007, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by End Of The World

In 6v6, go with 3-4 friends, choose the build, take 1 or 2 pick up with you (about 5-10 minutes)and go!

In 8v8, go with 3-4 friends and, choose the build, take... 4-5 pick up with you (about 30 minutes or 1 hour) try to explain your strategy, lose 2 players who don't like it, try to find two others (10-15 minutes) explain your strategy again, wait for afks, wait for the 2 who err7 to relog, then go, do 1-2 runs then stop because 4 players have to go to bed.

Oh that wasn't biased at all, because people never leave 6v6 groups, you don't need a strategy in 6v6 groups, people DON'T EVEN SLEEP when they play 6v6. It's been faster forming teams for me simply because more people want to play, get yourselves some friends and stop pugging ffs.

Quote:

In addition of this, a lot of guilds HA oriented were created because it turned 6v6, because you need less active players to go. If 8v8 stay, these guilds will die quickly.

If you have the people to 8v8, go GvG and leave HA to 6v6...

HA guilds usually had a core roster of 8, forcing 2 of those players not to play kills a guild, 6v6 guilds can recruit 2 new players np.

stuntharley · Feb 11, 2007, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by End Of The World

In addition of this, a lot of guilds HA oriented were created because it turned 6v6, because you need less active players to go. If 8v8 stay, these guilds will die quickly.

If you have the people to 8v8, go GvG and leave HA to 6v6...

There were ALOT MORE HA guilds in 8v8 then there were playing 6v6. Alot of the good guilds when it turned 6v6 either went GvG or disband and alot quit.

End Of The World · Feb 11, 2007, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuntharley

There were ALOT MORE HA guilds in 8v8 then there were playing 6v6. Alot of the good guilds when it turned 6v6 either went GvG or disband and alot quit.

Is it a reason to force guilds to disband again?

B Ephekt · Feb 11, 2007, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Quote:

In 8v8, go with 3-4 friends and, choose the build, take... 4-5 pick up with you (about 30 minutes or 1 hour) try to explain your strategy, lose 2 players who don't like it, try to find two others (10-15 minutes) explain your strategy again, wait for afks, wait for the 2 who err7 to relog, then go, do 1-2 runs then stop because 4 players have to go to bed.

In addition of this, a lot of guilds HA oriented were created because it turned 6v6, because you need less active players to go. If 8v8 stay, these guilds will die quickly.

Make friends, join/create a pvp guild, stop pugging.

Quote:

If you have the people to 8v8, go GvG and leave HA to 6v6...

I don't mean to be condescending, but IMO this comment highlights how littlie most 6v6 advocates really understand pvp in this game. GvG has completely different objectives and tactics; it's essenitally a whole different game. What about players who prefer HA over GvG, or don't have time for GvG? Are you saying that they should be forced into a crappy 6v6 arena, or playing a form a pvp they might not like? Just because finding 8 people is "too hard?"

Personally I want to HA - I don't have time for GvG anymore - but 6v6 was so horribly limiting and gimmicky that I didn't even bother signing on. It wasn't fun playing in an arena where scrubs can win because your build is incable of countering theirs; 6v6 was not friendly to balanced.

As for GvG, my guild held rank 80 on the ladder about a month ago, before hitting some major inactivity and falling apart. I don't feel like finding a new guild since I can't play that much anymore... 8v8 HA is perfect for me, since I can sign on, grab or form a group and go.

pigdestroyer · Feb 11, 2007, 12:23 AM // 00:23

I do agree that killcount maps absolutely suck in 8v8 enviroment, balanced teams have no chance against spike teams.

still 8v8>6v6

pnumm · Feb 11, 2007, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Balance all the way... 7v7 anyone?

End Of The World · Feb 11, 2007, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Quote:

Are you saying that they should be forced into a crappy 6v6 arena, or playing a form a pvp they might not like? Just because finding 8 people is "too hard?"

Exactly, and you, aren't you saying "casual players are newbs, go PvE or TA if you can't forming a 8 players team"?

"Crappy 6v6 arena"? I could say crappy 8v8 arena if you want, that's so constructive...

Franco Power · Feb 11, 2007, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Anyone knows if Anet is keeping kill count? I prefeur holding...

B Ephekt · Feb 11, 2007, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by End Of The World

Exactly, and you, aren't you saying "casual players are newbs, go PvE or TA if you can't forming a 8 players team"?

No, I'm not. Especially since I'm essentially a casual player now - as I said in the post you're replying to (yet apparently did not read).

What I'm saying is that 8v8 is better for the game, due to the options it provides in the way of utility and versatility. The question of whether it takes 20 or 25 minutes to form is insignifigant when we have more pressing issues. We need to be addressing which format allows more balance, utility, viability of skills, etc. In that regard, 6v6 failed miserably; the amount of utility you're able to bring in 6v6 is horrible, only a handful of builds are viable and there are tons of decent skills that never see any play due to lack of skill slots.

For example, how many non-spike mesmers did you see in 6v6? How many utility characters did you see? Did we even see anything more than 5 builds?

The bottom line is that players can deal with a few shortcomings of 8v8, as it benefits the games pvp overall. At some point Anet needs to decide what is best for the game and leave the rest up to the players. I believe we're at that point currently with the 8v8 issue.

If you're having trouble finding groups, you should try playing with friends, join a guild or even create your own. Failing that, start your own PUG groups. It's not hard, and you get a lot more control over the quality of players that way.

Bottom line, we don't need to keep 6v6 just because pugging sucks.

Tyrant_Dragon23 · Feb 11, 2007, 01:03 AM // 01:03

If you're having problems with Spike groups might I suggest an infuser thats actually able to catch spikes? My guild was running a balanced and pretty much every round we had was against a spike but our Infuser was awesome defeated them horribly. Though it is true that 8v8 isnt fun in Kill counts it consists of ganking and a spike group taking advantage of the gank. Before you QQ about spikes consider taking the time to find a decent backline or to come up with the counters. That's the beautiful thing about 8v8 you can add things to counter builds.

sp3ct3r · Feb 11, 2007, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrant_Dragon23

If you're having problems with Spike groups might I suggest an infuser thats actually able to catch spikes? My guild was running a balanced and pretty much every round we had was against a spike but our Infuser was awesome defeated them horribly. Though it is true that 8v8 isnt fun in Kill counts it consists of ganking and a spike group taking advantage of the gank. Before you QQ about spikes consider taking the time to find a decent backline or to come up with the counters. That's the beautiful thing about 8v8 you can add things to counter builds.

The problem is that in maps like broken tower and courtyard, you cant disable 2 teams at once, even if you bring somethings like choking gas , migraine, etc... so what happens? you win in 1v1 against spikes but in 1v1v1 you loose because there is a spike team that wins

GG

AYss · Feb 11, 2007, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Answering to the question stated in the topic... Me, my whole guild and at least half, prolly whole, of my alliance ([Koss], [Vent], [NoiR], [shh], I haven't talked to others yet) love 8v8.

We already tried 4-5 different builds... It rocks

, and we never faced exacly the same team twice, which happened all the time in 6v6. Even few iways, bspikes and ritspikes we met, all were different and I would call none of them FOTM.

Although, I still think killcounts are are stiupid. If that would be only 1-2 maps on the way to HoH, then I could live with that. But in HoH they completly banned hex/cond pressure teams, e-denial teams and similar. When you start pressing team B and if team C is any kind of spike, you just give them free kills and their counter goes up in no time, while your degen/denial is not included in final score in ANY way. GG. Well... If ANet wanted to make of HA something that should be called Spike Arena, the GJ, that's what it is.

My last question is... Why not create separate subforums for comments about this weekend too? I'd really love for this post to be considered "feedback" :P .

End Of The World · Feb 11, 2007, 03:15 AM // 03:15

I think big guilds love 8v8 because of this:

-8v8 make groups more difficult to form
->So more pugs
->More crappy teams (iway, bad spikes, ...)
->Easier Fame farming.

B Ephekt · Feb 11, 2007, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by End Of The World

I think big guilds love 8v8 because of this:

-8v8 make groups more difficult to form
->So more pugs
->More crappy teams (iway, bad spikes, ...)
->Easier Fame farming.

What an amazing display of logic and rationality.

Most of the players in this thread supporting 8v8 already have their tigers. Personally, I don't care about fame - I just want a fun arena that I can pvp in, where "balanced" isn't limited to a dervishes, an echo sandstorm guy and 2 monks.

LifesRestorer · Feb 11, 2007, 03:46 AM // 03:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by End Of The World

I think big guilds love 8v8 because of this:

-8v8 make groups more difficult to form
->So more pugs
->More crappy teams (iway, bad spikes, ...)
->Easier Fame farming.

8v8 makes more groups difficult to form, so more pugs - how does this logic work? easier groups forming means less waiting time = more pugs.

easier fame farming. will this not make it easier for everyone to get fame if there are more crappy teams? will they not play each other, instead of the one PuG team from 6v6 playing guild upon guild, just to be flawed and sent back to HA id1?

Snype · Feb 11, 2007, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by End Of The World

I won't debate about builds used in 8v8 or 6v6, I think it's NOT the point AT ALL.

In 6v6, go with 3-4 friends, choose the build, take 1 or 2 pick up with you (about 5-10 minutes)and go!

In 8v8, go with 3-4 friends and, choose the build, take... 4-5 pick up with you (about 30 minutes or 1 hour) try to explain your strategy, lose 2 players who don't like it, try to find two others (10-15 minutes) explain your strategy again, wait for afks, wait for the 2 who err7 to relog, then go, do 1-2 runs then stop because 4 players have to go to bed.

In addition of this, a lot of guilds HA oriented were created because it turned 6v6, because you need less active players to go. If 8v8 stay, these guilds will die quickly.

If you have the people to 8v8, go GvG and leave HA to 6v6...

Get better friends

Quote:

90% of spike teams fall apart after the first death. To beat them
1) good infuser
2) run in and pressure like crazy
3) call co-ordinated spikes with balanced

We beat blood spike so many times thiis weekend and we were a rank5/7 PUG group running balanced. It isn't hard, just find the caller usually number 1.

8v8 is much more fun, alot more creativity and alot more varity in builds. I havn't seen many spike groups. Mostly balanced which is fun =)

I don't know what HA you were playing in, but I certainly saw over 80% spikes tonight. Bspike is fine, its beatable I agree. However Rit spike is extremely overpowered in any annihilation or kill count maps.

Quote:

If you have the people to 8v8, go GvG and leave HA to 6v6...

I don't see why people have brought up statements like this so many times throughout these discussions on guru. HA is SO unlike GvG they might as well be polar opposites. HA is for fun. You can lose, you can win, it doesn't really matter. No one is playing HA for "amazing prizes!" or a tournament. GvG, in my opinion, is much more primitive gameplay. Although tactics are vital, the match is more about out pressuring the other team then fulfilling a goal. In HA however, there is always a goal (get relic, cap altar, kill ghost, etc.) that will either cause your team to win or give them a strong advantage. This calls for MUCH more tactic calling, and can change the outcome of the game. In HA a team can have a build that is completely at a disadvantage from the other, and still win from tactics.

Thom Bangalter · Feb 11, 2007, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snype

I don't see why people have brought up statements like this so many times throughout these discussions on guru. HA is SO unlike GvG they might as well be polar opposites. HA is for fun. You can lose, you can win, it doesn't really matter. No one is playing HA for "amazing prizes!" or a tournament. GvG, in my opinion, is much more primitive gameplay. Although tactics are vital, the match is more about out pressuring the other team then fulfilling a goal. In HA however, there is always a goal (get relic, cap altar, kill ghost, etc.) that will either cause your team to win or give them a strong advantage. This calls for MUCH more tactic calling, and can change the outcome of the game. In HA a team can have a build that is completely at a disadvantage from the other, and still win from tactics.

you don't gvg at all, do you?

Snype · Feb 11, 2007, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

you don't gvg at all, do you?

As a matter of fact I do, but thanks for asking

deluxe · Feb 11, 2007, 04:31 AM // 04:31

had a lot of fun today destroying spike teams with an anti-spike build, because at the moment the only thing you see is: Necro spike (icy veins, blood or deathly swarm), Ranger spike, Ritualist Spike, or Elementalist spike (obsidian flame or invoke lightning).
iway is not much of a threat, never has and never will be.

people should just take the spike ha-metagame to their advantage and counter it, so the metagame has to move on.
(remember when every team had a fertile season on it a year ago?)
too bad there arent many people who can come up with original stuff.

Lord Sojar · Feb 11, 2007, 04:41 AM // 04:41

and the trolls march on and on and on! /feedthetrolls.

I like 8v8, I like running spikes, I like going against spikes. 6v6 was complete BS soul reaping exploitation. No thanks!